Tent of Many Voices: 07300603

once again to the ten mini voices for our 1:00 program um like I explained before this is part of the core Discovery to traveling exhibit and inside this tent we do ask for many different voices to speak about aspects that have something to do with the Louis and Clark Trail and today during this hour we have a real treat um a musical performance is always a good draw and uh we've never actually got to hear Jay old mouse before it was a real shame he got stormed out so we're all really looking forward to hearing from Jay old mouse he um has several different tribal affiliations Northern Cheyenne Mandan Hada and arika um and his program is entitled the Cheyenne cording flute but there's so much more to it and I want to just kind of turn it over to him he's the expert here so please help me welcome Jay old mouse to the Ten of mini voices e thank you good afternoon the honor is all mine I'd like to take this time and thank the Lewis and Clark people for asking me to come and be a part of this last week and I was able to share at pompei's Pillar and it was just as hot there as it is here today I'm here today with my wife Amy and my youngest son Trevor sitting up front here and um I'm here today to talk about the Northern Cheyenne cing flute this is a handmade Flute made from a raw piece of wood I got a big chunk of wood up here made from a raw piece of wood to a finished musical instrument again the Lewis and Clark thing listening to the gentleman before me um I am of the Mandan Hada araro and I have heard the stories of of the Lewis and Clark Trail amandan Hada ARA on my dad's side on my mother's side I'm Northern Cheyenne I was born in Dickinson North Dakota and I was raised on the Northern Cheyenne reservation it was here with my grandfather it was about 18 years ago 18 19 years ago I was approached by my grandfather and just in a casual way he asked me if I would be interested in making a flute I told him I was I'm a certified Carpenter by trade and always interested in arts and crafts so it was easy for me to say yes so we started by he'd say come on up on a weekend so I'd go up to his house and we'd go down uh in Bernie area I'm from lame deer Montana uh Bernie area Northern sh reservation and we would hunt for this wood he would show me what to look for straight grain no no knots things like that and in my mind I was just very interested in that I could take a raw piece of wood and finish with a beautiful musical instrument along the way he would tell me things he would say I took him as uh well at the time just as as a young man um I took him as just information and my mind was so geared at getting to the Finish instrument but throughout his teaching throughout his showing me he would tell me little uh I took them as uh life information things for myself he said JD you're you're human you're going to have bad days you're going to be mad at whatever your bills uh the weather anything he said when you feel that way don't work on this flute work on these fluts when things are good when you feel good so along the way he would tell me these things we we we started with a raw piece of wood to a finish musical instrument and it took about a year took about a year to finish it just because we worked on it on the weekends or in evening and and and because of that it took that long song Upon finishing my first flute I remember the day I played it for him in his house and I made it sing it it sounded beautiful my grandfather was even impressed with it we sat and we visited we laughed and when it was time for me to go home my grandfather said from this day on from this day on Jay if someone needs a flute if someone needs help I am going to send them to you I left and I went home and I showed my mother and my father Roger and Verna old mouse this flute that uh me and my grandfather had completed and I played it for them come to find out that my grandfather had given me the right to make and play the flute for the Northern people and upon understanding that my mind began to wander my mind began to to want to ask more questions so naturally I went to my grandfather my grandfather's name is Douglas Glenmore his Indian name is Black Bear M nak he is my mother's dad so I went to him with questions a lot of questions one of the first questions was Grandpa who taught you how to make the flute who gave you the right took you step by step as you did with me and he mentioned a guy named Grover wolf voice so my immediate question after that was do you know who taught Grover wolf voice and at the time he he mentioned the name turkey legs a gentleman they called turkey legs I asked if he knew who taught turkey legs he said no I've only I only know the name he said so again an honor was bestowed upon me and it came into my life at a very young age I was my early I was in my early 20s and I started out by helping uh playing at graduations I was asked to play at a few birthday parties weddings and as our people found out that I was a flute maker and player I also assisted them during times of Sorrow during funerals and to this day I'm called upon quite a bit at home other reservations and and everywhere and one of the things my grandfather said was was share this share this with the world so I would go around give presentations in schools uh and even in places such as this because I'm proud and I'm honored that this has become a part of my life life and for a long time there I had no pictures of the gentleman called turkey legs and at one of my presentations back home in lame deer when I got finished a woman had approached me and and said I have a picture of turkey legs and chills just went up the back of my neck and and and a couple weeks later she brought it to me so displayed before you here this is a picture of turkey legs and I was quite honored to receive this picture because in his hand he is holding a flute so the picture is even that much more special to me on the back of this picture it had Fort k on it so this picture was taken right here in m city at Fort Kio and I notice on my way in I've been here uh several times at the one of the forts is still over here or a building is and it it surely resembles this one in the picture and this picture they tell me was late 1800s so this is a picture of turkey legs he was the flute maker and player for the Northern Cheyenne people the gentleman I spoke of there came a time when when turkey legs had to seek and find someone to pass this on teach them step by step just like my grandfather did and he chose this gentleman Grover wolf voice Grover wolf voice was the flute maker and player for the Northern Cheyenne people taught by turkey legs he is also holding a flute and I have with me today and I have it with me every time I do a presentation but this is an actual Flute made from Grover wolf voice Grover wolf voice also had to find someone and teach them and he chose my grandfather Douglas Glenmore Douglas seminal Glenmore again whose Indian name is Black Bear M I also have a flute that was made from my grandfather also today that I carry with me for display this flute was made by my grandfather and again roughly about 18 years ago I was chosen my grandfather chose me and I had this picture taken of my grandfather and myself um in honor of all of what I've just shared with you so again it was a big responsibility I consider myself a young man and still learning still learning about this flute we still have Elders at home that share stories with me I just most recently heard a story um about the flute again it's the Cheyenne cording flute it was used for a young man to win the heart of a young woman kind of like Cupid's arrow but it was also used for prayer purposes healing and easy listening and I was just a story was just most recently shared with me that when the when the camp when the Indian village was ready to move that a flute player or players would take turns and play music as they were tearing the camp down and getting ready to leave they would also play as they were leaving it was also said that when someone was sick that a flute player would go to their Lodge and they would play and the music is real soothing and haunting that it would take the pain away take the pain away and allow that person to fall asleep or be more comfortable for a moment so again it served several purposes in regards to the cording end of it I was told that a young man would go to the flute maker and request a flute be made for him when the flute was done that would be become a part of him again and used for the things that I've mentioned healing prayer and also to win the heart of a young woman and the way they say that this how they would do that is in the evening when things were at peace after supper so to speak these young men would take their flutes and sit amongst the hills around the village and they would play music and as they played they would think only of the woman they were in love with and if it was meant to be that woman would hear that music and follow that music and follow it all the way to where that young man was sitting they would meet and their relationship would grow from there so that's how the flute works and again I'm still learning myself I want to take this time and share a story with you it's a story on how this flute came to be with Indian people in the old days the old Indian days the way a young Warrior man would be recognized by his tribe by the societies um by families and and most importantly by the women the way a young man would be recognized was how well he helped his people how well he uh did uh things of Bravery go to enemy camps and steal horses and bring them back go fishing go hunting bring food back and help feed the people this is how he was recognized the story goes as there was a warrior man who struggled in these all these areas he would go fish he wouldn't catch anything he would try and go steal enemy neighboring tribal horses he'd get run off he just struggled one day he went hunting and he did happen to shoot and wound this big bull elk and he chased it all morning all afternoon he could never catch up with it before he knew it night fell upon him so he built himself a fire he was going to Camp there and continue tracking this animal the next day that night as he sat there gazing Into the Fire he began to feel sad he began to get down on himself he he was thinking why am I still out here why is I can't just go hunt and and get an animal and go go back to my people with it he just started really feeling down and sad and as he was feeling this way he began to hear this music play and this music really soothed his heart in his mind it cleared him of all the bad thoughts it relaxed him he laid back and he fell asleep the next morning just up the ridge there laid this big bull elk so he gut it he skinned it he corded it he packed what he could back to his people and as he came into the village with his with his kill the old people saw him and they began to sing and cheer and sing songs for him as he came in and this made him feel good he was like yes this is how it's supposed to be as he came into the village and walked by the the The Lodges and stuff even the women looked at him and winked at him and waved at him and this made him swell up even more saying yes this is how it's supposed to be so he shared what he had with his people they had food a new hide antlers for tools and weapons and as time went by a few weeks went by this young Warrior Man thought of that music that he had heard that night and he was curious and May made him feel so good that it it cleared his mind and his heart and he fell asleep so the story goes is that he went back to the place where he had camped that night where he had heard that music and he fasted he prayed he prayed to the Creator that whoever whatever played that music for him to come forth and talk to him and the story goes is that on the fourth day this woodpecker came to him this woodpecker came to him and spoke spoke to him he said I am the one who played that music for you that night he said follow me so this Warrior man got up and he walked to this old cedar tree with this woodpecker and in this cedar tree the Woodpecker pointed out a hollow Branch the Woodpecker pointed at a hollow branch and said I am the one who played the music for you that night I know how you feel I feel that way often myself the Woodpecker said listen you can hear all the birds singing said I cannot sing like that said I was born a Carver and I carved this into this hollowed out branch of this old cedar tree and as the wind blows through it I spread my wing over the holes and I can sing with the rest of the birds take this down cut this down and take it with you to your people and play music from your heart and if it's meant to be it will come true so that is a story that was shared with me on how this flute came to be with Indian people so with that I'd like to play a little more for you for again still like I said earlier considering myself a a young man and I there's a lot that I know for fact that has been lost uh from the times of turkey legs to the present time um of me standing here and playing and sharing with you I do rely on some questions and I'm glad the other presenter asked for questions and I'd like to ask for some questions too also and and don't be afraid to ask any question Under the Sun I'll do the best I can to answer it but again back to the teachings um this came into my life again as a young man um early 20s and a time where many roads or doors of opportunity doors of Destruction all of the above and this coming into my life has helped me walk the good road they say um it closed the door on drugs on hatefulness on uh alcohol all of that and I was thankful for that because life is tough life has many obstacles and to be called upon by My People by other people is is an awesome feeling to help people my grandfather said anytime you can help someone help them so again that's why I'm here sharing this with you and back to some of the teachings uh being a a carpenter by trade uh when we started I asked my grandfather I'm like well how long is the flute supposed to be and I was reaching for my tape measure but he said five hands which is basically one two three four and five so even the blueprint so to speak was real primitive and I found that very interesting and fascinating one of the things he said also is he said when you finish a flute the notes that it has make music from that none of my flutes are tuned to a music scale I don't read Sheep music the the music I play comes from a feeling and I call it chasing a tune so I just grab a flute and and get something going and then fall it so again that was interesting make note or make music from the notes that it has another interesting thing he told me was when you finish a flute and if it does not play that I might want to put this aside and step back and take a look at myself and see how I'm living see how I'm treating people see how I'm treating my wife and my my children and again that those were some powerful words if you finish a flute and it doesn't play that I might want to put it aside and again see how I'm living I'm honored to say that since I've been taught about 18 19 years ago I've made close to 80 85 flutes and every one of them have played well so and the other thing that might be hopefully it's a question I keep referring to about 18 years ago I grew up in the days of writing everything down times date actual day he asked me actual day I finished the flute but I didn't and often times when I stand before people and share that I often think of that but I often think that along with the modern day world that I live in that maybe that something that's just better off left alone so therefore I just refer to it as about 18 years ago and I'm pretty close also the picture down there late 1800s some of you might be trying to do the math as passing it on these gentlemen were well into their 80s I know my grandfather passed a year ago this July so I had a I had a a long time to be with him and ask questions every time I finished the flute I would take it to him first and I would play it for him he would take it and he would play for me one of the reasons he he he was he felt it was time his hands were real arthritis up and he and it's real tedious work to make one of these those are some that's one of the obvious things of why why he had to find someone there's still some reasons why I was chosen that are unanswered because he could have chose any anyone any member of the Northern people and even in my immediate family my cousins there's a there's several of us but I was chosen no disrespect to my brothers but I was chosen and that was an honorable thing there was a there was a song I had mentioned that I play from the heart which I do but there was a song Always requested in church um often times at a funeral and I'd like to play that for you a little bit here I'm sure you'll recognize to again just listening to the the present the presenter before me again speaking of of uh on his map showing where my on my dad's side the Mandan Hada and arra uh also hearing them say that they shared songs I often wonder if there was a flute player back then also but again those are areas like I said I'm still learning and all of that another thing my grandfather told me that you could do with this was you could bugle an elk has anyone heard an elk bugle before any Hunters here okay I'm going to do my best here and hope we don't get one to come across the Yellowstone here but if we do help me get him and he again uh they also probably used it during the the hunting season naturally they hunted with bow and arrow and and to bugle them in and get them closer would be the way to do it so let me try it here was that close with that do I have any questions I need at least yes or Juniper the question is is this cedar or Juniper very good question I refer to it as Cedar it's the stuff that has the nice Aroma um but also I've I've read um my my dad uh knew of this man Grover wolf voice and he referred to it as Juniper and I think there's probably a big family of of cedar tree I've heard it referred to as Western Cedar aromatic Cedar but yeah SE I uh Cedar Wood hold on here we go do you use any other type of w like Lodge Pole or do you stick to the hard harder uh the question is can I use any other kind of wood the cording flute the Cheyenne cording flute I was told to always use Cedarwood um a brief discussion with my grandfather um Native American Indians use um certain Cedar certain Juniper cedar trees the the thistles off of them to burn as an incense to to bless their home to um chase away evil spirits and through his discussion like that I think that was part of the reason to use the wood but also it's a very beautiful wood um and we all know that cedar again I guess moving into my Carpenter uh knowledge Cedarwood doesn't rot or takes longer for it to rot it keeps for a long time um things like that so always to use the cedar um I have made one out of Redwood before that played real well but again I was always told to use the Cedarwood yes let me come to you are are there uh specific songs that have been passed down uh from you know earlier Generations uh and do you then uh improvise your songs make your own songs like I said earlier from the time of turkey legs and I'm I'm still curious on who the man that taught turkey legs but what you're asking is a good question she the songs I was told by my grandfather that was that there was at least three songs that came with this Flute one of them I think if I remember him was a badger song a badger song and I'm not quite sure the other two but those songs were lost in there again um and back to what I said as far as playing um and I think it stands true with most tribes um because I know the crow have flute players I know the Sue have flute players and tribes down south and it's always referred to as a love flute so but they have their own stories their own stories um what I'm presenting today is the story and the history of the Northern Cheyenne cording flute and with myself the songs it's like I say I play music from the heart comes from comes from a feeling but also was told that not only from my grandfather but Elders that whatever the occasion a flute player is called upon say a funeral um we naturally know it's a sad time so you want to play something that's lowkey and and and and as you play you pray for the family you pray for I pray for myself my wife my children and then the I pray for the occasion that I'm playing for also so again that's where the music comes from also any other questions one over here um have you chosen someone to teach have I chosen someone yet uh no I haven't and the reason I haven't is because I still enjoy this very much it's an honor it's a blessing but I hope I don't have to make that decision till I'm well to my 80s also and I do have have four boys I have no girls I have all boys so I guess to kind of answer that maybe one of my grandchildren maybe one of my boys but I don't even begin to know how or who to choose and that was always a question also but I always answer that by saying number one I hope that I don't have to make that decision till I'm well into my 80s and I think something will tell me something will show me so hopefully that answered that it any other questions I'm not sure how I'm doing for time here you've got about 10 minutes so we can do a few more questions no problem do a few more questions and I can play a little bit um do you use modern day tools or hand tools yes I do when my grandfather taught me though he had a lot of um well my grandfather you got to understand was uh he was always tanning hides and he also made drums for us to sing at uh paow um he was constantly working and he had a lot of his own homemade tools although there was tools available to make it easier but I mean even hid scrapers he had a old Elk Horn I remember Elk Horn with a piece of of metal bent on it wrapped with a raw hide and he' scraped all his hides with that um lot of uh tools he made but I myself use a lot of modern day tools yes but I think where the beauty is is to start with a raw piece of wood and finish with a musical instrument and I always kind of answer answer that question too that if Turkey lades had access to a band saw table saw he probably would have used it also so but any other questions I was wondering are you the eldest son in your family or what is the order of your birth in the family am I the eldest in my family no I have an older sister and an older brother in my immediate family and again I'm not sure what your question is but it's like I said there was something about me special probably maybe to my grandfather on why I was chosen and it was no disrespect to my other brothers and in the endian way my first cousins are my brothers also and I have several of them so um I have another question do women ever make the flutes what's that do do women ever make the flutes do women ever make the flutes uh to my knowledge no and that is a very good question and I'm going to do my best to answer this and I want this heard clearly in the times of turkey legs and the men before and and uh I would say turkey legs in his time and before I would say strictly men again being a cording flute um strictly men during uh wolf boy time I really couldn't tell you and I'm going to stay away from kind of that era but my grandfather told me that if you can help someone if if by helping them and we'll say it right out a female was to want a flute he has made a flute for a female to to play and to have as a as a home um decoration or whatever but he also encouraged her to play because he felt that if this flute can help a young woman stay away from drugs and alcohol that it was a good thing now you might get some different feedback from different Elders maybe Elders even of this gentleman's time so again thinking and that's a very tough that's a tough question to answer but I have personally um had uh through this St lebre Indian School um during the school year I put on a they called it a flute playing class we'd all Gather in the Catholic church in lame deer in the uh social room um and we and kids from St Le would come over uh boys and girls so to help them but I've never yet honestly had a woman asked to me to show her how to make one but I have had women asked to play them so again even the playing May May raise some controversy depending on the age but the way I look at it again is the way my grandfather looked at it if it can help a young woman be a better person and feel better about herself I'm more than happy to to assist them any other questions raise your hand if you have a question I'll come around okay when turkey legs selected you was it like a Hands-On um one onone saying you know I want you to carry on my tradition or was it with the whole assembly of people it was a one-on-one and my grandfather's the one that taught me Douglas turkey legs uh taught Grover wolfo then wolfo taught my grandfather and my grandfather taught me but yes it was just a one-on-one and again to share with you those those things that he told me like I said if one does do play put it away for a while see how I'm living but no it was a one-on-one it was a one-on-one from the from the time of asking to the time of how to um find the wood and how to carve it and and the finished instrument it was a one-on-one once that was done it all it became a community thing as far as helping the community um I don't think I'm stepping too far out of bounds by saying if you were to go to lame deer and ask if you had if the cheyen had a flute player I think 98% of the time my name would come up again there's no certificate there's no badge there's no diploma that says that I am the flute maker the way this is um known to people is just like what I'm doing here I'm here and I'm sharing it with you and I have the proof to back it up so when you guys leave here you're going to share it with a family member a friend that you saw Jay old mouse the Northern Cheyenne flute maker and player and again that's how the news travels so again Jay we have time for you to play one more song If you uh audience would like him time play a song here and then uh I know there's a this this program there was some information and the playing is is kind of brief you know it is brief but through being taught through being taught my immediate family requested that I put it on a cassette tape so I did put uh flute music on a cassette tape and then I did transfer it to a CD so um they are available my wife and son have them over here and if you purchase one it's greatly appreciated but I do have uh a flute and it's dedicated uh to my grandfather Douglas Glenmore again whose IND the name is Black Bear m go somewhere oh thank you Jay Round of Applause thank you very much for sharing if uh you don't mind I don't know how much time there is but you're more than welcome to come on up here and take a closer look at these pictures because they are beautiful and they are awesome and I want to thank again you guys for inviting me the Lewis and Clark people and I want to thank you guys for coming out here today in this heat and and listening to this thank you very much if you are interested in purchasing J CD we'll set you up Jay off to the side here um away near the building where you and your wife could sell your CDs so if you're interested CJ off to the side here we're going to