Tent of Many Voices: 09240603

and join us for the very last program today I want to welcome you to the core of Discovery 2 traveling exhibit and this tent of many voices I'll tell you a little bit about us if you're brand new to the tent I would be surprised I see a lot of familiar faces here in the crowd and I thank you all for coming back joining us for today and joining us for the past few years that's right we've been traveling for four years on the Lewis and Clark Trail starting in January of 2003 in monachello Virginia we went all the way to the Pacific coast and now we're back to St Louis just as Louis and Clark did 200 years ago yesterday they returned to St Louis well as we've been traveling the trail to various towns and cities along the way this is our 95th stop bringing presenters here to the tent of many voices to share their voice with you about Lou and Clark expedition and the people and the cultures they met along the way 200 years ago Lewis and Clark stayed with the Chinook and clats up people on the coast and with us today is a very special presenter he's the chief of the chanuk people and he was our very first presenter in the tent of many voices 3 and a half years ago in monachello Virginia his name is Cliff Snider Chief Cliff Snider or grey wolf and it would be my honor if you guys would give him the biggest Round of Applause and welcome him to the tent thank you thank you very much I'm overcome have a SE have a SE yeah yeah CL you everybody because I'm seeing so many people I've known over the past few years I hope you uh don't mind if I take a minute to welcome all those guys in the canoe that came down the river yesterday Captain Clark and his whole crew what a marvelous Landing down there what a great celebration I was with you guys in St Charles last night boy did we have a good time my friends my friends from Pacific County and Washington are here I'm certainly glad they're here we were you know that particular group were the friends of uh uh sister city with Charlottesville Virginia I had a chance to be back there with them and they're here in the crowd today thank God you're here I appreciate it very much and all those people with them from uh Pacific County down the coast at the end of the trail I want to make sure that I recognize that you're here I also want to recognize my chairman is here my vice chairman is here there's some chinuk Indians here I have some clats up Indians here they're all back here from our particular native land and I'm so glad they made this trip out here to the Mississippi River I'll try and get going now the speak speaker before me I have in trouble with this the speaker before me is so good that he doesn't need a note I've got pages of notes because I'm about 30 years older than he is I'm 80 years old now and I have to kind of look down once in a while if you don't mind if I get lost just wait a few minutes and I'll catch up with you this I know I'm going to for get some people like try to catch up with Terry last night I know the people who are taking pictures and everything I if I've forgotten you I'm sorry I'll meet you out back and and we'll talk it over anyway I'm going to mention some other people in the crowd later on people that had something to do with the beginning of this Trail this is the end of the trail what a wonderful day the great spirit gave us to have this final occasion no rain we hear about rain all the time from these people who work here but today look at it sun's out nice calm Day Lewis and Clark on their return met at the Yellowstone and Missouri rivers and they begin the final leg of their trip back they dropped off Chicago AIA sakaia chachaa whatever you want to call her depends on what tribe you're in they left her off in the Mandan Village Knife River with sharbono and her baby pump they continued up the river and they run into a couple of French Trappers they pick them up they picked up Chief Shahi at Knife River the chief of the Mandan tribe they're going to take him back to see President Jefferson and they were on their way and they got to rushing you all took psychology in college you know about gold gradient don't you the oh horses when they went out on the trip the closer they got the barn the faster they went well that's what was happening the big rush was on we got to St Charles and look out in the pasture there there's a moo cow we know that we're getting close now and oh the joy St Louis in sight I kind of changed that a little bit but here we are in St Louis what a beautiful place to be one of the good reasons I like being on this Trail for 78 years is because now I get to see them Missouri I get to see the Mississippi I get to see the Grand Arch and then there a wonderful place I love St Louis as onary Chief the Chinook Indian tribe there's a difference between a chief and a chairman we have a chairman with a beautiful uh uh Indian Council I was on the Council for 25 years fighting for recognition when I retired the tribe named me honorary chief for life so if you're working on the internet you're trying to find our leader it's not me I'm just an honorary person our real leader is Ray Gardner sitting in the audience today we have come full circle and it's time for everybody to celebrate I distinctly remember when I first began I was in partnership with the United States fish and wildlife and we're having a meeting in Leon Idaho and we just had to introduce ourselves as we went around the table there were probably 50 60 people in this big round table and they were discussing what we were going to do on the Lewis and Clark celebration which was coming up and I was just there merely as an associate when I got around to me and I introduced myself as a chinuk Indian a member of an unrecognized tribe in United States of America everybody kind of looked at me Rod ARA white was next to me ly Shon he says we are also not recognized by the United States government who makes those decisions it's not made by Congress it's not made by executive order of the president but somebody in the Bia and nobody will take the blame for it and that's why we were we were there we're just talking about other things the next day they had another meeting that meeting the same thing happened they got around to me and I said uh I can't see that we should be calling this a celebration and the word started moving around and the Indians felt that we couldn't celebrate the Caucasians taking land from us and it by that by vote they started to call it the Comm commemoration and that still stands to this day I was proud to be part of that the second part of it was they're unrecognized Indian here are all these Indians sitting around they're unrecognized what are they doing here you remember what uh people were saying you know Indians should have uh equal rights and and anything that's happening here and so uh they decided to include all Indians on the Trail whether they're recognized or not out of that meeting was about seven or eight years ago I can't tell you exactly but what a wonderful feeling to see that's still happening today and then when Gerard Baker came in and he started talking about what the Indians are going to do on the trail he says we are not going to be p uh we're not going to be involved in this unless we have equal rights we don't want to be looked down on as second grade citizens and Gerard Baker is still my hero today for saying that give that big guy a big hand now most of you are acquainted with the Lo and Clark Trail by the authors that we had and the history books that you read and I bet you 99% of you know know more about the generals and I do I know a little bit about what the Indians thought and sometimes my thoughts are quite different than the history books because I've been talking to Indian leaders for eight years they're telling me these little legends that aren't even written down in the beginning our third president of the United States which by the way was born in England President Jefferson made the deal of the century by purchasing all the land that was to be all the way to the Rocky Mountains doubling the size of America he paid what $15 million 18 c a square mile for all that Land wait a minute am I missing something here who's living on that land out there are the French living out there did na Napoleon really really uh own that land now the Indians felt this way and it's the land was not owned by anybody we belong to the land and if any of you guys out there are part Indian and have Indian Heritage you know what I'm talking about we could not buy and sell the land it was not for sale we belong to the land so I just want everybody to know where they got the land from and what they paid for it and who really lived on the land maybe I have a little favoritism there I don't know I'm going to El light over something because we're going to have some some ceremony here after afterwards and I don't have Sammy Meadows from Colorado to give me this I'm just going to have to hurry through it I talked a lot like to talk today about it says on the program I'm going to talk about the chip culture we've always been given the privilege to change the title around a little bit what I'd like to do is tell you about the Indian tribes that they met on the way I'm going to miss some but I'm going to put some of the important items and I'm going to put in there about some things that aren't in the history books the stories are going to be different and I got this from Roger Wile who portrays droillard on the trail these are the Lost journals of Lewis and Clark right Roger and so I've been using using that your phrase for a long time because I've been in these Indian Villages and they're telling me these stories and later I'll tell you how they might contradict the history books that we have well you know the rest of the story Jefferson pointed Lewis and Clark and uh he didn't have the slightest idea of what Li was lying ahead he had never been over the mountains he had been 200 miles west of monachello he didn't know about the rivers the mountains and all those things terrible animals and things and above all he didn't know a thing about those wild Indians that were out there we have to be kind of careful of those guys we don't know whether when we go through those Indians are going to kill us or whether they're going to help us or what's going to happen so that's the interesting part how did the Indians help Lewis and Clark go through this whole trip and back as a unit and why weren't they eliminated and that's the reason we're all here today because they did make it I'd like to talk about some of the couple of the first tribes I met you know all the things they went through about going through France and and when they could leave St Louis and all that kind of thing but there were running into Indians right away that had seen white people before when they left St Louis and some of those Indians were oage Indians had a good opportunity to talk to some of them while I've been here and the Shaun some of my friends dark rain Tom and her husband beautiful Chinese uh sh people and then they ran into a team called uh I'm saying team because I'm an ex- coach but I ran into a tribe called kapoo now the only time I ever knew about the kapoo was from Lil Abner when I was a kid and they remember they used to drink kikapu joy juice and that's where I got that name from I don't know if any of you know about kikapu enjoy Jews I like to try it sometime then they ran into the omahas and the otos and they're back there and they met with them and had a counsil and they were telling them how good our president was and so now they're going to be that was their new leader and you know where the name Council Buffs came from when they talked to them and now they run into the yton Sue boy they likeed them they had They carried them on Shore with big carriers straped with skins they went to the camp and they danced and they had a great time no problem there some white people had been there before so they knew about him so far so good now there's no problems with those wild Savages but they're running into the ton Su and black Buffalo and you all know the story they wanted more tobacco they wanted more supplies because they were going to take a toll to go up the river and we're not going to let you go by and so Clark says no way Lewis said no way so they drew the bows and arrows well Clark took out his saber Lewis ordered the cannon on board ship to be trained on the Indians that was in that battle right there and so they finally agreed to let the women on board the kill booat and take a small trip with them and they proceeded on is the way I put it but just think what would have happened at that particular point if they had got into a scuffle and there been a lot of people killed well it didn't happen so good for them so now we reach s raras I'm getting a little warm with this blanket so glad to have it though the riod tribe and they saw this guy that was on the stage just before me they saw York they couldn't believe it they come up and they rubbed his skin and they couldn't rub it off they just didn't understand it and I must say then that some of the Legends I discovered by talking to people that there were some seual interchanges that took place between the core and the Indians but I can't confirm that but I just wanted to tell you that was something that I read how the winter was coming the reached Knife River they reached the mandans you all know that story they nearly starved they built a fort there that was a longest stay they had on the on the whole Trail and they said to the core there's not much food here because of buffalo have gone but if we eat you eat and if we starve you starve and so that went on they made it to the winter they had a 3-day Buffalo dance and all of a sudden the Buffalo returned and that's how they made it to the longest winter uh longest day they had on the whole journey at this point was the most fortunate thing that ever happened to him on the trail in my belief they hired Chicago WEA shano as guides and interpreters to continue on wait a minute now there's a baby too and you know they had a dog now they got a baby that's going to go on this trip it's amazing they ever let that happen but what they did is they told them all what was going to Beall him on the trail ahead about the huge Falls that were several miles up the river we're talking about the Great Falls when they got there well that's just going to be couple days and we'll get around the falls and we'll continue on you people have read all the journals s was almost a month by the time they got around where those dog gone in Indians when they needed them where are the grow buns they were up in the hills they were watching them the whole time but they were suspicious and they didn't want to come down and get killed but anyway the crew made it on their own and passed on well now we reaching the end of the River it's like a creek that can jump across and the next thing you know they run into the Shon ly shonis if you were here in the last session you know how they were greeted how they were welcomed in the camp this is Chicago's tribe and she recognized a girl that was captured with her and they felt like well maybe uh that Chicago had died had would never return and then of course you about the meeting with her brother C8 and so they hugged each other well that's a good end there's going to be a good chance we can do some trading now that they know each other in one of the sessions they say that a brother wasn't necessarily a brother but it was just someone like a cousin or something like that so I can't be definite whether it was a real actual brother or not well how are they going to to trade now we got no more water that's the end of the water passage we got to go over some mountains to get to the Pacific we need horses well you've got horses well how did they trade with the Shi Indians very simple Lewis talked to leish in English leish talked in French to shano shano talked in Hadas to Chicago WEA Chicago WEA then talked to Kamaya in Shoni and then in the reverse took part can you imagine that they picked up 29 horses and a mule and they had a dog well they got a guide with them they're going to go across the bitteroot mountain sometime but they run into the Flathead Indians flaad Indians received them very warmly some of the horses were giving out so they gave them uh some price horses seven or eight of them and some were Colts then they went over the bitter Roots boy there was a place that was probably one of the worst places on the whole Trail and how they got across I don't know they nearly starved to death they had to eat some of the Colts but they finally made it nearly starved the made the way up Prairie on the clear waterer River and they ran into the nzp Indians our friends over there I'll tell you what a welcome site we had they had fish and enjoyed a good meal but the young guys said oh boy look at all this stuff there's guns there's ammunition there's horses and there's trading Goods let's kind of let's kind of take some of that stuff and just destroy all these white guys wait said this lady who had been with the white people over in the plains and as an old woman she returned to the npar her name was wat kuis and she says they are good people do them no harm there books out about that I'm so proud of what she did and so the neps decided to let them go of course they made the canoes went down the Clear Water went down the Snake River and I'm going fast now because I'm omitting a lot of things but I want to tell you they did go upstream and and they uh met the Walla wals and they met the yakas and the WAMS and they were turning the corner on the Columbia and they looked over there there's an Indian with a sailor jacket on red and blue my goodness we must be getting closer and there were other Indians wearing sailor clothing wow we can't be too far from the Pacific Ocean but they kept running into these funny looking Indians they're only 5 foot five tall and they had flattened heads who are these people we know them today as chinuk Indians but we're coming to these Falls it's called salila Falls nowadays it's only 48 ft wide they met the Indians there and the chuks started ringing their hands and crying we're all going to be killed here come these bears with upside down faces my goodness what are we going to do wait the Chicago whe there's a woman and she has a baby this can't be an armed group we can deal with them well let's see them go over the falls which is about 30 ft tall you know and then when the canoe tips over whatever floats over at the beach we'll just kind of take that and Stephen Ambrose really wrote about that how the chinuk Indians were kind of Thieves you know they smell like fish and they were kind of the thieves and our feeling was you know whatever is laying loose that's for the taking it's not the way we look at it today but that's the way it was then well finally they just decided they shut the canoes over the falls and and the Indians helped them Portage and everything turned out all right they said look out for those Chinooks down there you know how many Chinooks on the river at that time 16,000 chinuk Indians at the mouth of every stream on the Columbia Gorge was a chook village with the canoes up on the shore there might be 40 people it wouldn't like sitting bowl with thousands of Indians around them 40 people 60 people 20 people you got married you went and lived with your husband and his band I hate to call them bands because United States government frowns on bands of Indians they like the word tribe period we've run into that problem several times times anyway just imagine this if any of you have ever been to Oregon or even if you had to Heaven there's these huge Cliffs on each side of the Columbia Gorge you're floating down there in your canoes at night and on the shore you see all these canoes and now you're going with the current and you look at all these canoes and look there there's a fire here and a fire there this 50 fires in this one Village and you're going silently down creek what a beautiful sight that must have been and now we're getting closer place called Portland Oregon Vancouver nowadays they stopped in all these places they got by Beacon Rock whoa there's a tide change we can't be too far now tide changed from the Pacific Ocean scwr upt there on down they went they finally got down there and my fourth great-grandfather I can't Indians don't like to use the word great that's just my grandfather from now on my grandfather discovered Lewis and Clark as they came down the stream not the other way around we were already there we discovered him just like we discovered 28 ships had been there before him had come across the bay my group gave them some fish dismal Niche showed them a place to Camp they went over at the beach and raved their name on the stump and searched around the weather can you believe the weather was so terrible and I'll tell you how long it was later but it was raining there MO ERS were completely worn out their clothing was terrible they hated salmon by this time they didn't like the smell of it what are we going to do are we going to Camp here Station Camp no we're working on that now chairman on station G but let's have a vote Stephen Beckham and leou and clar college doesn't like to call it a vote he just took a poll who wants to go up to Vancouver area who wants to go kamak area who wants to go uh over to the other side of the river whatever well my grandfather said well you don't have much to trade we've been trading with 28 ships that already come in why don't uh why don't you guys go on the other side why should we go over there well there more elk over there besides that if you a ship comes in you can see it better and you'll be out of our hair too well they went down to Pillar Rock when my mother was born and they crossed over there because the dog gone Cano you know how it was going through the locks yesterday coming down did you know that there going to be locks on that River coming down from St Charles well those canoes didn't do very very well in the mouth of the Columbia and sometimes you were in a boat with a lot of freeboard you still wonder if you're going to make it well they went down to where there's some islands got around up to tongue Point cross over and they built that Fort at Fort claton my clat of brothers are back there now they know that history we all spoke the same language and so sometimes we feel that we're just like Blood Brothers there but they went across there they set up the port and they stayed there the second longest time on the whole trip and that was good but they had elk meat and they they described it in the journal say poor elk meat p o r e because evidently it didn't last very long in that kind of weather they saw 12 days without rain and only six did they see any sun at all you know about the salt K and the whale story and all that but they made it through and I made it through because the clat of Indians were helping them every day with food and and doing everything they could about directions and I must say something now about Dick bash his fourth or fifth great grandfather Chief cab or kol who was a classup chief at that time now he's the director of the tent of many voices and we both served together for 25 years on the chook Indian Council my salute to Dick bash back there I love that guy on the way now I have to check my notes see where I am sometimes I get several Pages ahead of myself byway I'll tell you by memory we just took off they uh while they were there a ship did come in Over the Bar you know there's 10 and some ships buried out there I don't know how they made it across in a tall ship it was called the Lydia and the Lydia came into Port was there for a while my grandfather told him oh where's they has for Lewis and Clark oh heck they went back they're already gone so the lyia Trad with them and then left and went around I always say they miss a good bus ride home and they had to come back by horse and B can what a shame that was but in a way there's more stories on the way back I'm just going to tell you one or two the one or two are on the way back they tried to get a canoe from the clat spion they couldn't do it they wanted to trade women they wanted to trade sexual favors and wanted to trade everything else and it just couldn't happen so Lewis and Clark's crew stole a Cano and they left and they were going up the creek and as they're on their way up the creek they got into this Channel and they look back and here comes a clam Chinook Indian just pedling like mad to catch up with him what's going on we stopped we talked to him this is a no in slooh here that you're in the main river is out there you got to go back and by the way that's my canoe that had you stole my canoe well good thing they had some extra elk skins so they traded him for those elk skins and away they went again the other one if you're were in the crowd before Smokey was telling about only one man died on the trail and that's a story that I learned by Legend from the blackbeat tribe the pans young I imagine young boys you know probably 15 to 23 something like that camped with ls and Clark that night and they slept with him they got medals they got the American flag but early in the morning they started to take off and they were stealing their guns and they were stealing their horses and they were taking off with them uhoh so I think it waso not Floyd but it was one of the guys and I'll think of he's nameing a second after I'm done but anyway he Fields Fields shot one and he got his stuff back and Lewis ran after one and he stabbed him So when you say Floyd was the only one killed on the whole Expedition it's not two there were three people killed on the Expedition so I'm sitting in my home Portland Oregon I get a call from a man in a black foot drive he says come and through come have coffee with me and we had we're were talking about those things he says that's not true either I said how come he said the one that Lewis St uh shot I mean the one he shot recovered and then died so only two men died on the ls C Expedition that's why I call them the Lost journals because they're just a little bit different that you read about in the textbooks well I'm getting down there near the end I want to thank Diane back there for getting me here I want to talk thank everybody that's responsible for the T of many voices dick bash and his boss and I want to leave you with one thing and I speak for the chairman of My Tribe Ray Gardner my vice chairman Sam Robinson I want to speak for them and say don't forget the seven chinuk directions and those of you have been listening to me for the last several years know what I'm talking about seven directions are east and west north and south up and down in the directions of your heart cop from my heart Kaka so be it amen thank you I've got my drum here anybody wants to help me celebrate I can use the word now celebration is ready to gok if you have any questions for chief Snider you're welcome to raise your hand I do have some colleagues out there with some microphones and um the chief Snyder can take your questions so go ahead and put your hands up if you have a question there's a guy come on up in the back am yeah I'll repeat it yeah I think I know where go ahead he asked if there were any sign language on the West Shore uh but but all only way we could communicate because the Chinooks had a guttural language that was even hard for anybody from one Village to another to understand I always put it in this perspective like England and there's whales and there's Ireland and there's Scotland they all spoke the same language it's difficult for everybody to understand each other any of you are watching the writer cup now you know what I'm talking about you can't understand what those guys over there are saying but we had a lot of different dialects which started at the mouth of Columbia and went all the way to wishram and uh they had a kickish form of dialect up there the only way I can figure out that they even communicated because that language even Chicago didn't understand the only thing that they could do is point and draw in the sand and and try and just beat it out of each other by sign language now when I'm with Roger back there and we're talking to different schools he will do sign language with me like from my heart I'm talking to you you know things like that and that's about the only way that we can communicate with each other from the old days and I think that's what they had to do like this was be me I'm talking to you and which direction are we going that sort of thing that's all I can say but we definitely they did not understand our language but on the trail there had been some white people in before that French Trappers and so forth and so they had some idea of a couple of words they might throw that in in the meantime any other questions I have a drum up here uh I'm going to set this down and when I'm when I'm talking to the kids in the school I also work for the Confluence group with my Lynn out of New York that did the Vietnam Wall so I'm talking to a lot of schools all the time grade schools high schools colleges all that and I always let the kids play the drum so I have it here and I can pass it around if you guys want to beat on a chinuk drum I'd love to have you do it this gentleman here I know would like to do it take this and and that anybody else any of my girlfriends out there I want to thank all of you for coming out I just wanted to mention I know that all of the Rangers would agree with me in saying that our family is sitting right here all of you are family to us you been traveling with us over the years you're very close and dear to our hearts so I'm very glad to see you here for our very last presentation in the tent of many voices um before I get too far I would like you to give one big round of applause for our last presenter Chief Snider thank you stay right where you are okay at this time uh we were we'll be preparing for our closing ceremony which is a very special time and I want to kindly ask the folks in the front five rows we're going to um we're going to make those reserved seatings so if you will have a seat but don't I'm sorry don't let anybody move yet oh excuse me we're going to do an honor song I'm sorry it's snooze I got just say one thing first I didn't see them but my friends with the uh and I left that little part out in my speech about the circle of tribal advisers Bobby don't run away I'm talking about you and Sammy these two ladies right here are just wonderful to the leaders of the circle of tribal advisers and they made it possible for all the Indians along the trail to express their views and respected their views and so that's what happened over the last three or four years and I'm so proud of you guys I was glad to be part of your group thanks for coming and uh uh Diane Diane you can come up here too as the chair of classs close cloudia till comes con n King Chacha Jeff painter Nang I'm Jeff painer I'm one of the cultural resource Specialists of the clat up tribe and uh this is our chairman and vice chair and we just really want to honor up Grandpa Cliff here for all the work he does for our people and uh he's a real healer and uh does a lot to make things come together between people that might be having disagreements and uh and I just had a talk with Ray and he said it be okay for us to do this so this is an honor song to honor to this man this song was composed in the 1700s when one of the epidemics came through our village at NL and the meaning of it it sounds like uh eii o vocable words but there's a meaning with that song and it means you're all so valuable we can't afford to lose one of you and that is directed at that Grandpa over there but also to each and every one of you that's witnessed this journey you know the talks today you'll take that back to your community whatever uh culture that you're from you're all very important you're all witness something here today hey he he