Tent of Many Voices: M03310602TMB

well good morning ladies and gentlemen I'd like to welcome you to the core Discovery 2 this is a mobile outdoor exhibit sponsored by the national park Serv service and other sponsors that you are you just have to take my my word for it that they're on this black panel right here I would like to welcome you that this is a commemoration of the bicentennial of the lwis and Clark original core of Discovery and we are doing by land what Lewis and Clark did by water which is to travel out to the Pacific coast and back to Missouri so 1806 200 years ago LS and Clark and the Expedition were on their way back to St Louis Missouri and so are we and along the way we're stopping at different towns that have requested us to come to the community and Grand Ron has graciously welcomed us with our open arms so we're very thankful to your kindness this morning we have a wonderful treat for you Mr Tony far is with the United States forest service and he is going to talk to you about Lewis and Clark and what they missed in Oregon a little bit about Tony he's an archaeologist with the US Forest Service he has been presenting Louis and Clark for three years now and teaching in Oregon Washington and Idaho school with the help of several grants so without further Ado please welcome Tony far hello hello how you doing good to see you thanks for coming down you guys all right can you hear me in the back hello Mike hello Mike is it on how are you we' got a lot to talk about and we're have a precious short time don't we all right well lwis and Clark were on quite an adventure 28 months how do you pack for an 8,000 Mii camping trip there's lots of things you can talk about with these guys well I'm going to talk about about today is what happened to them while while they were in Oregon they had problems in Oregon this gentleman says they hated Oregon they had some unfortunate experiences in Oran we're going to talk about that today it'll be a good thing to discuss okay we'll jump right into it are you ready all right on this table I have some of the replica artifacts and some old things also which the core Discovery would have had with them course they making a lot of maps they got big coins they were trading to the tribes with which doesn't work don't worry and over here trade goods they might have been settling down with in the lodge of one of the Chiefs to make some trade to try to make food or the things they needed they were pretty much out of supplies when they got to Oregon weren't they okay well what happened is they were coming into Oregon a lot of interesting things they had been through some very hard times hadn't they coming into Oregon they came through over the Rocky Mountains what happened they had to eat their horses they ate dogs they ate their shoes they ate their candles they pretty much were starving things were not going well were they they had planned to go from their first Winter's camp at Fort Mandan all the way to the Pacific coast and clear back to St Louis in that same summer they had no idea how difficult it was going to be and they staggered out of those mountains realized they weren't going to get to the Pacific and all the way back because they had taken way too much time to come through the mountains 144 milesi of very difficult travel was Hardo for sure they ran of food most their supplies they were and they were sick and exhausted they were just about starving of course they came down into Oregon the npers had taken care of them fed them brought them back to their health a little bit they began to eat dog with the npers again except for Clark and Sakia of course would never eat dog because she's shoson and they believe they were descended from wolves so it' be like being a cannibal right so she couldn't eat dog right at all but the men were starting to feel better they built their canoes they shot down the rivers now these guys had had quite a bit of difficulty on their trip hadn't they they'd come all the way over through the plains they thought they understood the tribes they had their medals Thomas Jefferson of course the great president who sent them on this journey our only genius President we will ever suffer in this country in my opinion had a great vision and he sent these people off to try to look for Nations of Indian tribes established peace through trade with the Indian tribes and set up a nice trading Network for the United States and he called that his vision was to establish an Empire of Liberty across this country an interesting idea Jefferson his idea of an Empire of Liberty was to have small little communities little farming based communities which related to each other and traded with each other and not have a strong centralized government he'd be very surprised today with where this country has gone I'm sure of that so he thought these guys would be have fun they were well prepared Merryweather Lewis of course had prepared for three years with Jefferson a year and a half a very intensive study how to take records William Clark was brought along to kind of lead the men do the map making he was a collector of people of course Lewis was kind of a a loner wasn't he and he had days which didn't go very well and if he had those blue days and when it gets cloudy like in an Oregon winter sometimes doesn't go too well Lewis had trouble in Oregon that's for sure all right they're coming down the river in their canoes they're headed down towards the ocean don't know how far it's going to be they reach the place where the great trading fairs have just ended at the DS Oregon the Columbia River was not damned the great George ug has written a good book now called when the river ran wild it's a great book he's an elder from Warm Springs he talks about before the Columbia River was damned all the Rapids and all the salmon that went through those Rapids and how available they were to the Indian people the great trading fair that begins in the spring late spring early summer and goes through the summertime in the Dallas Oregon sometimes swelled to 30,000 Indian people for a couple months at a time that fair had just ended when lisis and Clark came down the river William Clark noticed however in one of the Villages at Nik Lish he noticed in his estimation over 10,000 lbs of salmon dried pounded up prepared in baskets and ready for trade we estimate now over 1 million pounds of salmon a year was processed from what is now the Dows to Cascade Locks about 20 mi of the Columbia River just for trade alone quite an industry that's significant a million pounds of salmon a year for trade well where was it being traded some went East over the nesp country a lot of it though came down the Columbia River now Clark was familiar with Indian people he had grown up out on the frontier with his older brothers in the Indian Wars back East he knew a little bit about how to deal with the Indian folks Lewis had trouble dealing with people in general he was a loner absolutely the size of group this he would probably go the other way talking to this group but William Clark and sit down and talk to you well Clark thought as we come down the river let's make careful notice of the tribes they started keeping their records Clark was in charge of mapping of course we know that as well right he he was the great map maker have some of the replicas of his Maps up here and he was outstanding map maker they came down the river when they got to the first Narrows where the Columbia River narrowed down to 50 yards across from a mile and a half wide and the whole river boiled through that narrows and was a cauldron of swirling water and the Indians have been out there fishing when salmon were running it became difficult passage the Indians didn't run their canoes down that part of the river either we had 50 chinuk speaking Indian Villages from that part of the river to Dallas all the way to the ocean it was an alliance of villages relating to each other through Commerce rather than conflict this is a significant Point here the first Traders came out and said we have Indians out here and their relations as people out in the Northwest revolve around trade and commerce rather than around conflict and raiding as all the tribes had been coming across to this point whole different associations of peoples different rules completely are men were not familiar with those rules now these rules have been in place in a long for a long time these chinuk speaking Indian Villages and they had such a Reliance on trade they had a trade based communication where the chinuk chook chook trading jargon was a language of trade that went from the Dows all the way the Pacific Ocean and up the coast that headman for that whole empire was referred to later on as a king king K kamaly of the chanuk proper he was a rich man he was in charge of the Indian money that came down this is the Indian money the dtia shells very very rare this was the medium of exchange along the Columbia River I mean you could trade your canoe right that would be good also and food and dogs but the dtia shells were the standard money 40 of them of the small ones would be worth a canoe maybe three horses a few slaves couple hundred lounds of salmon the big ones much more rare 20 of these strung up would be worth a lot you could trade I think there are accounts of 20 of the large Denia shells exchanged for up to four rifles and rifles were very very rare at that time well com Kaley had his village out on the Pacific Ocean the great Chief himself the trade of this money came through him these shells are not located in Oregon naturally they come from Canada he had great canoes and his people went out in the Pacific Ocean and went in the cold rough ocean waters all the way to Canada and they traded for the Indian money up there and brought it back he was the central Banker for this entire trading system all the way on the Columbia River no wonder they called him a king and he was a clever man rather than having his alliances and his relationships with the neighboring tribes through force and conflict he did it through trade and relationships he had a large family had many wives his children would marry into the head men of other nations it all became a matter of family and relationships very interesting world so LS and Clark arrive in this they don't know how this works at all they're used to doing their peace Parleys showing the chief his new father you've been a chief for a thousand years aren't you glad to have a new father right you know your people have been here for thousands it didn't always work out too well but they had the they had their pattern worked out that didn't work very well once they got here the real disappointment was as they came down the Columbia River and remember now LS and Clark had been surprised visitors and a real curiosity to the tribes in the Rocky Mountains because they hadn't seen white people before they hadn't seen Clark slave York the big black man that was with them and they became quite a sideshow the largest Sideshow to travel through native North America but when they got to the Columbia River and got to the Dallas they were no longer unique there had been trade going on for a number of years for 15 14 and 1/2 years ships had had already been coming from Boston and a whole Year's journey and anchoring off the coast of Oregon atoria at B Baker Bay and trading for 6 months at a time with the Indians they wanted the otter skins because those otter skins when taken to China were worth a fortune so people were leaving Boston with trade goods for the tribes knives tobacco axes glass beads the blue beads were the chief beads the Tha beads that the tribes in the Northwest one of the most William Clark had told Lewis that when they left Lewis didn't believe him so they're out of blue beads by the time they got to Oregon they missed a great opportunity had they had another barrel of blue beads they would have been fairly wealthy they were pretty well gone of course later people were mixing the blue beads up with the Indian money and was coming brother exciting wasn't it is that nice I like these are not too old these blue ones some of these are old this is a string of 270 year old Dutch trade beads so they've been around for a while some of these old beads these tomahawks were very good trade items it's actually a pipe yes they had 55 of these when they left those are pretty nice those were hot items now they're coming down the river what do they see they see trade goods they see iron kettles they see Indians with old guns that are worn out they see Indian women with Sailors names tattooed on their arms James Bowman they see Indian children with red hair there's been quite a bit of trade going on for a long time they're no longer this the the great curiosity that they had been plus the tribes have seen black Sailors before so York is not even a great curiosity either okay they get to those Narrows let's get back to where the difficulty of going shooting down the Narrows on the Columbia they have to go there the Indians don't run their canoes down there they set their canoes up if you're coming down from above they Park their canoes walk around the horrible Rapids rent other canoes or family Arrangements you borrow a canoe and you head on down the river now there's been trade going on for thousands and thousands thousands of years and here are the rules of the trade this is something that Louis and Clark really should have known they didn't know it and it caused them a great deal of trouble if I and with my friends and my family and my most revered trading partners we have what we call a balanced trading agreement or balanced reciprocity you can come into my house and borrow whatever you want because you know I trust you and you leave the appropriate goods behind very informal now more distant kin and not so familiar trading partners have a more generalized trading agreement generalized reciprocity it's set up by the headman and at each time we're going to have our trade you can't come into my house and take things but your headman your Chief and my head man or a headwoman my chief or chief this will determine what the goods are and we put it's pretty friendly now here's somebody who comes in sometimes and takes my kids away and sells them as slaves from way far away right he's not part of the Inner Circle our Arrangement is much different that is called a negative reciprocity or a negative trading agreement so if he comes and take something from me what's my obligation I got to get even don't I and that's been going on for thousands and thousands of years in fact if I don't come and make it right it's a shame on my ancestors all right so we've got these wat laa tribes people controlling these Rapids they are a pretty tough bunch of folks they're the rivermen who live on the river the rules are when you come to the watala you have to pay them a toll to go through their part of the river that's the rules right if you don't do that you don't know the rules and Lewis and Clark they're a military outfit aren't they they got their guns they March around they're pretty sure of themselves so when they get to this point and the Indians start coming up and looking at the goods they have and maybe pocketing something saying well I I need to have that and this is the rule tools of exchange for coming through their reaction was not very positive and Lewis and Clark forced their way through pushed their way through bullied their way through so then what do they have to do if you break the rules someone has taken something from you in effect by not following the rules and taking Passage through your area you have to under the rules take something back don't you that's what happened so so Lewis in particular characterized Indian people the chinookan people as thieves not knowing that what they were doing was just following the rules that have been play in place for thousands and thousands of years the Indians looked a lot different they were shorter they had their heads foreheads sloped and flattened here's William Clark's drawings that he made of the flattening of the chunuk heads the women had evolved to a place of prominence in trade things were much different very much different the weather was bad wasn't it they get all the way down to the coast they're pinned down they've got a bad attitude a bad feeling for the Indian peoples because they think they're all thieves they speak a strange language they look different Indian women when they get made up to go out you know they put fish oil on them you know and they have a different different uh way making themselves up the weather pins them down and what they get depressed they're start feeling pretty bad quickly what else are they missing they're missing salt of course right they' got to have some salt but the main thing they missed as they came down was they missed their boat Jefferson had told them when you get there look out on the Pacific Ocean for the trading ships that are there and Jefferson had given them a letter of credit kind of like a blank credit card that they had with them signed by the president saying if these gentlemen present this to you give them what they need and I'll make good so they were hoping to get out here and find a trading ship still there but what had happened they had missed the boat they were about a month too late they were hung up in the mountains coming through it was very difficult travel they lost another 3 weeks on Merryweather Lewis's experimental boat which didn't work it sank and he was totally embarrassed and chagrined I think the men held that against him so they got all the way out here and they're they arrive in the Pacific Ocean in November the mouth of the Columbia River that's when the worst storms of the Year hit that's why the sailing ships have already gone where are they they're already in Hawaii right good resting up with their whole shipload of sea otter Furs and maybe some beaver furs resting up before they go to China trade those Furs for gold silver Jade porcelain spices silk and go home and increase their family fortune 300 times so they those guys were long gone right what are they going to do they're going to have a boat they need a they don't have a fort they have to find a place to live don't they while they're here that'll be good so they're going to build a fort they think when out on the coast somewhere the weather's so bad they're thinking this is not a good idea so they had they plan to head back up the river go up the river and build a fort near Mount Hood maybe 100 miles up where it's drier but some Clatsop people come and tell them on the other side of the river from Washington over in the Oregon swamp lands there's a lot of elk now these guys are on the first Atkins diet they've been eating 10 pounds of raw meat a day for a year and a half haven't they and they don't they do not appreciate the richness and tremendous diversity of the cultures in the Pacific Northwest salmon is one of the greatest foods you could ever have these guys don't ever appreciate the salmon you can only have this kind of an alliance of peoples 50 villages in a friendly trade Alliance when you have tremendous resource a avilability this was one of the richest places in the world agriculture never developed here like in most of the rest of the world why they didn't need it the area was full of wonderful Bounty a bounty of food wouldn't that be something that kind of interdependence of trade when you have that much salmon coming up your river system gives you stab ility amongst groups it it does that's what that's what they had they really had a version of what Thomas Jefferson had thought they should seek was that Empire of Liberty equality tradeability it can only come in a resourcer area so there's trade for food tools religious purposes medicines it's all here but rather than take the time to get to know the Indian people that were here the chinuk world since they were kind of repulsed by the activity which they interpreted as thev theft and the physical appearance in the language the man moved across the river to hunt the elk and withdrew in built Fort classup and spent the winter pretty alone they missed out on so much previous winter they stayed at in the plains of North Dakota at Fort Manda lived as a part of the Indian trade and the world that was going on and learned a lot but by isolating themselves although they did have time to catch up on their homework and Clark of course did his great map making determined they were had come 4,123 miles he's like 40 miles off this incredible map maker and Lewis caught up on his writing and his measurements and his scientific documentation they really did not interact with the Indian people out here nearly to the degree they had been all the way across why do you think they were felt so bad you know it was it was the weather but part of it is I think they were the first tourists in Oregon they had exceeded their Authority when they crossed the Rocky Mountains they outside the Louisiana Purchase weren't they weren't they so they really had no official standing out here I think they might have known that a little bit and they were a little bit leery of their position though they were careful they ran out of salt they needed some salt they sent some guys out to get to make salt that's a story everybody knows about they they boiled sea water made 2 and 1/2 bushels of salt Lewis was craving salt Clark could do without it pretty much they go to see a whale that's kind of exciting right but they missed getting the whale meat because what they were too late to get there their their timing is so off when they come to Oregon they miss the big trading fair when they come it down the river they miss the boat don't they they're too late to catch their ships to get resupplied to send people home perhaps they get to the whale too late they hear about a little bit late although it's interesting sakaja so I say her name insists on going and by way at 4:00 I'm giving a presentation on sakaja all 18 names that I found for her it'll be it'll be interesting she decides she needs to go see the whale they go see this 105t whale of course they take great records of it they don't have much to trade these guys started out with a whole ship a big barge keelboat of trading Goods they're down to two handkerchiefs of trade goods at this time some buttons they've got a couple of coats they can trade they've got some fish hooks and some sewing needles basically they managed to trade with the K the tilamook or the kiluk people for enough whale blubber to bring that over so that gets them through part of the winter Lewis writes well it reminds him of pork when you cook the whale blubber now of course shano the French Trader who is the owner not the husband he wins her in a game or purchases her of sakaja is their cook he's the company cook he doesn't really have that much to cook most they kill 153 elk with in the Oregon winter the Indians see them as depleting the resources is taking way too much food away for the amount of people that there are there very wasteful they weren't recycling they're very wasteful right the Indians pretty much stay away C commy doesn't come to visit them and because Lis in particular doesn't feel comfortable with the chinuk people he orders them all barred from the gates of Fort clat up but Sundown every night now so how the Indians what do the chinuk think about these folks first of all these guys are lost aren't they they've come down the river for the first time somebody's come they're called Boston Americans were called Boston to the chinuk when I talk to the chinuk people today they still call me Boston you're either King George from England or a Boston from the United States to the chinuk those are the first group of Boston that ever came down the river that was kind of interesting they were broke actually they had no trade goods left they were pretty dirty their clothes were rotting off by the time they got here their Oak skins were falling off in the rain their uniforms were long gone months ago they were in pretty bad shape the Indians here were very very clean the chinuk people were in the water all the time it's part of their religion their ceremonies to cleanse themselves extremely clean these guys were probably not that clean you think these were mountain men from Tennessee and Kentucky in fact historians say that at this time in American history fewer than one in 10 Americans took more than one bath a year so it was kind of a different looking group so they they're lost they're broke they're kind of smelly they're not all that clean and now when they're all kicked out of the fort every night at dark what they're rude so no wonder the Indians don't come to them in great numbers and embrace them and have all the parties that they had the first winner the first winner what Pierre cruzat the wild Frenchman played his fiddle every night there was big parties he never plays his fiddle the whole winter out of the four months they're here 120 days plus REM it's raining all but 10 or 12 days it was a winter like January was this year wasn't it this is the little ice age you guys can look that up from 1700 through the Civil War the Northern Hemisphere got quite colder than it is now glaciers Advanced that's why when they came to the Rocky Mountains there was snow and August it was a cold old time well they managed to get through the winter they've eaten all the oak they can find they traded for a few Roots best they can the men are sick had they lived with a chinook and taken sweat baths and gone on their lodges they wouldn't have cramped up and become so sick many of the men have real bad muscle cramps from working in the rain and the cold they just want to go home one of their canoes gets lost in the ocean in the storm another one is damaged they're preparing to leave and head back up the river they only have an a trade good to trade for one canoe there's still one canoe short Lewis gives the order we're going to take a canoe now Jefferson has told these guys when they're out here treat the Indian peoples honorably we want to end up with a whole nation of trade across this country it'll be good so act respectfully do the right thing you know a month earlier six elk were left out in the woods being brought back to the Fort now the rules in the west are which these guys don't seem to understand don't know the rules that causes some trouble when meat is left out after dark what it's fair game why it yeah because exactly wolves will get it so so if anybody leaves meat out after dark it's there for the taking so the Clatsop chinuk people took that meat Lewis called him on it and said listen you thieves they're just following the rules but he called them thieves again well they say okay we'll bring you six dogs and that made Louis very happy because he lik to eat dogs and so that did Square the relationship at that time but even though that did happen Lewis when they need the extra canoe says because they took our six elk we left out there last month we're going to take one of their canoes so he so while the captains are thanking cabay or k we call him cabay today who was the clat up chunuk head person of the of the clat up chunuk people on the Oregon coast thanking him for being a pretty good host and he had fed them a little bit brought them some roots and he was provided the most contact that they did have was very limited while they're doing that and giving him a piece of paper giving him Fort clat for his own personal Retreat to have as a chief which is kind of nice they're stealing his canoe they have men taking his canoe so here we have Indian view these guys show up as poppers basically they're kind kind of rude and kind of dirty and really not that interesting and they leave they leave as the thieves and head back up the river very interesting and it's uh that they were sent out by Jefferson to look for an Empire of Liberty or to set up relationships where he could help establish one where we could have local localized trade localized stability they came over the Rocky Mountains where what men were men and horses were horses and there was a lot of Buffalo hunts and it was just great and Grand everything was that it should be as it should be they came over down into this world of salmon people and they probably were in as close to an Empire of Liberty as existed at that time anywhere and did not recognize it for what it was at all and left disillusioned and left which with such poor reports of the Indian people here if somebody hadn't been here to see what was going on you would think people really weren't worth talking to they were just thieves and Scouts although they did notice their canoes they were Amazed by their canoes the wonderful Cedar hats they had and some of the details of their physical characteristics the money was interesting you know they like the money they really had a chance had they spent the time with the Indian people here to get to know them that winter go with Comm Kaley and his people and find out what their ceremonies were like you imagine William Clark if he'd have been with the King C caly and gone in one of those 60 foot hia freighter news up into Canada on a trading Mission what the reports would have been then just would have had the way to connect with the people it would have been a whole different time wouldn't it so they headed up the river and guess what their timing was still off had they waited another three or four weeks like they had originally planned they would have come up the river during the salmon Harvest there would have been a bountiful trade going on and the Indians there would have been definitely ready to host them feed them and have a what the enormous party which would have been they that's what they were looking for well they were too early so they came down the river too late they went up the river too early they missed so instead of coming into celebrations they found people who were starving and not doing very well and they went back through the Dallas area and what happened they forced their way through again right coming back now if I forc my way through once that's bad enough isn't it if I do it a second time what that's really on you right Indians were taking more Goods they took Lewis's dog SE man the big Newland dog Lewis by this time you know he's kind of depressed anyway wasn't he we knew he had problems with with uh fits of melancholy Jefferson called he became blue Lewis has become a dangerous man Clark is now in charge of the Expedition when they leave Oregon Clark is a leader of men his whole life he's a collector of people he loves the interaction Lewis threatens to burn down Indian Villages threatens to punch Indians out roughs them up and Clark steps forward starts doctoring the Indian people with the medicines that they have clearing up some of the eye ailments they have with the laments they have that the Corb Discovery is carrying with them and it's a good thing he does that because that buys them just enough Goodwill along with their great Superior Hunters George duard couter the fields brother some of the great hunters that are along and they're able because the people are so hungry they're able to trade them for some fresh elk meat and just barely get through and head up where they're going home aren't they finally all right any questions what do we have here I got five minutes for questions anybody yes questions I have a microphone I'll come around and everyone can hear your question does anyone have any questions you've got one shelves where do these Shel okay he wants to know about the shelves they're off of vanc Island these are little creatures this is the top of the shell the animal lives out at the bottom they live down 70 ft deep in the dark Pacific ocean waters how' they harvest these they didn't have scuba gear a few washed ashore they had a long set of broom handles that interlocked they would stand up on the ocean in their canoes take a a broom head which was carved out of uwood branches into a little head Cedar slats around the edges which when closed up would cause the broom head to pinch these little critters off the bottom of the ocean they had a cedar plank with a hole cut in it that fit down over that broom head two large stones on the side they would get down to the bottom and they would plunge 70 ft down that broom head into the sand beds where these little critters were the weights of those two rocks on the sides would slide that cedar plank down over that broom head close up those bristles and pull them up to the surface what an amazing technology was here without any metal and so they traded them all the way down what was the extent of the trade good question these trade items were found all the way over the Missouri country Indian people had a tremendous trade going on we had uh we find turquoise beads in the Columbia River from the southwest there's abalone shell from Southern California up here and these trade goods went all the way clear Down Under the Mississippi River and The Naz people who were traded with the Aztec through the Caribbean Ocean knew of these trade goods tremendous trade goods good questions anybody else oh there you go did they have did they ever see any wolves did they see wolves they even ate a wolf while they were in Oregon yes there were wolves everywhere there were Bears they ate over a thousand elk on their trip they ate a couple of wolves a couple of eagles they ate a few coyotes lots of they maybe 30 Bears this guys this is original meat diet weren't they if it wouldn't have been for sakaj wayo along they probably would have had trouble without they didn't have the vegetables but she was able to recognize some of the roots and foods which was very very good for them kept them from getting sick okay you guys can walk by these tables on your way out don't linger if you want to look at this stuff don't linger too long cuz other people can see it and we got another presenter coming up our next is going to be coming up on the hour hand