Fredy Baker – Mandan

and he's going to be talking about man and Hada culture and history for us today Mr B wow sitting up here I almost tempted to say please turn to page 243 in your hand books and also would someone please pick up a question my name is Fredy Baker and I'm my member of the Mandan and hel tribes wondering what the Mand tribes are doing at on the agenda at meeting in omasa well we we were the the destination tribe when Le and Clark first started out Jefferson had heard about us he heard about us through reading about the probably the Alexander McKenzie vure across Alexander McKenzie was the first white guy to cross the P he cross it up in in Canada and uh actually did what did but he took a different kind of route that interested in C in history because I have two little Branch with our our Canadians living on Vancouver Island if anybody on Vancouver Island very beautiful location uh I just first of by saying that you know in this show celebrating the vice sentennial and so are a big event to close part of the heritage of America being open as it was in those days but for the and the you know L and Clark is really not a big deal so at me and say what what do you mean well because by the words you know L and Clark came to visit us about 1804 1805 obviously and as early as 1700 know we've been dealing with the French so we were used to see these white guys come to our village we were Traders uh we had U developed a massive trade system probably as early as 700 you know there's evidence from archaeological digs and those kind of things that put us uh at that time at the mouth of the somewhere around the mouth of the bad River and for here South Dakota and we lived in in several villages we lived in Earth lodges which at that time were a archaeologic architectural marble which is you know they were extremely well built they were extremely comfortable and extremely useful uh later on when the westbr settlement started out came up to our Ty of the woods you know many folks built Assad houses much like somewhat somewhat like our our Earth watches but the time they were extremely extremely uh Advanced technological he and we also um we also were agricultural people the band band were agricultural people as early as about 700 the say there's evidence that we were hitting at to the bad River and that we were also fing we raised what I wonder what that's a sign of get off the stage and shut anyway we raised corn uh we raised squash we raised tobacco we raised beans and we used these for ourselves but also we they became a very important trade item because we were sedentary we liveed in in villages and people knew where we were and raised food people came to us they would bring us different tribes came to us with whatever products they had to to trade we and we had a very elaborate kind of trade system would and we also were're proba be pretty astute Traders um we would if a tribe came to us to trade you know in order for us to recognize them and trade with them you know someone had to adopt be willing to adopt that and um listening to my little grandfather you know sometimes if they didn't come with very good merchandise we wer very interested in trading with them and sometimes they might have a hard time finding someone to actually adopt it uh but we did adopt them and the price of adoption of course was to give presents give some of their stuff to the the family that adopted them they also very traitor so so people used to say well you're you were kind of Walmart of the upper Missouri I said no no no we wer the Walmart we were the original Sam's Club because in order to trade with us you had to buy into our our system um and then uh as we we moved North oh in our own stories our own myths our own our own origin stories so there still there's some question about just exactly where we put ourselves we had a Creator by the name of L man who who uh created the Earth along with a K character called first Creator e and uh those two together you know had walked Walked on walked on on the on the water and you know they found this gold found this this little plant with blood coming out of it and he had some connection with that plant and that plant told him you know I you know I'm your mother I'm the one that that produced you and so he was walking around wondering you know how that plant got there and he ran into this little duck call I guess a mud duck I think about and he asked the duck was ding down and coming back up and he asked the duck he said what what are you doing what's down there and the duck said Earth there's there's fruit down there so he said well give me something so a little duck uh down and came back up and so he took four different and brought him four different pieces of earth and so as he was walking along you know he would take those Dr bit of that Earth and as he left left it would become become land this is our know there's much more to it I mean these are you know long long stories and they were P for for many times so I when I was a little kid I heard you know the complete creation I was very fortunate that I got to spend what the first 6 years of my life living with my grandparents my my grandfather was a full what we call full BL all H and my uh so my mother was was Hera and my father was andad so I have on both sides uh my father's uh my grandfather was you know traditional in the sense that you know he taught me a lot of the kind of the history the values uh and he always kind of told me about who I was and what I was going to face uh and told me that your life would be difficult as a as a male as a man I had responsibilities and I like these guys was age here and he tell me that you know nothing is easy because you are a man and you have responsibilities and continue this on and U when I was 6 years old in that inevitable day when you have to go off to school you know and like most kids you know went to school for a couple days and he wasn't too cool he had to sit at a desk and he had to do certain things you couldn't run around like you always were able to so I decided D this isn't ready so I decided I wasn't going to go to school and so I ra the big plus and my remember my grandfather sitting by me and uh talking to me and he said me he said you know he said I've been telling you all these years that have certain responsibilities that have and U these responsibilities you know you have to learn how to make a living so it's very hard on the preservation he was actually was was very successful because we we moved from uh when they put us on reservations you know we moved along the river and continued our same lifestyle we still had large Gardens we raised our own food and we switched from the Buffalo to to raising T my grandfather was a real old of a farmer ground type I guess because he had all kinds of Critters on on his on his place he had East I remember East in particular because when you're a little guy e like come up and just about discard your body and they like to nip I remember being ni a few times also had chickens I where chicken well because my first real job that I was responsible for was to gather the eggs when I went to get the eggs be uh there always certain hands that decided that they wanted to be mother hands instead of just so they would uh reach out to gra their a little kid Le a big impression on you so anyway so so he he told me that you know I needed to learn he had no idea what education was education couldn't speak English and fortunately if you learn how to speak speak about almost interchangeably because we had some major Smalls epidemics and you know we were forced to come together our our our our languages are different but our cultures are very similar it's almost hard to uh to know whether well certain stories are man only or there comination of man or stories um so anyway so that's kind of how I got my my Foundation I learned I lived in in an environment where under one hand my grandfather Wasa and taught me the ways in the language so I grew up speaking H by folks on the other hand and people at my age my my parents age were very concerned that we learned how to speak English and that we went to school and that we got an education you know and so uh so they taught me to speak English so I I can't remember a time I couldn't speak either language I learned how to speak English and it simultaneous so it became a natural kind of thing I went to I went to about the fifth grade um I received an Indian name Indian name I received was uh was yellow yellow yis named after a by by a man uh who was but my my mother or my grandmother that side were we're very we're very religious they're very Catholic my grandfather on the other hand I think you know was Catholic only because you know women have a way of kind of convincing you to do certain things and I think because of that he but I always felt that he really still need the old religion and U he had a ble uh Liv in a fairly large house at that time and I was able to have pretty much run of a house except for this room where the bundle was there was a bundle in there and there was a bule Ro and I was not allowed to go in there but anyway uh so I I was sent off to a Catholic school at the age of five I mean at the age of 10 years old board school by that time the Garrison Dam had was beginning in all of our schools were were being shut down I went to recers four years in a what we call a government School government Day School by theair and U so from there and last summer I was going away you know we had a Catholic priest who was very Adam at the his legacy being a Indian person from our reservation to be ordained a priest and so somehow at the 10 to age of 10 years old I was destined to be that person and so kind of as a uh not quite sure about kind of as a test to that to that charge so to speak I was given the name of a very religious kind of a person he was a very powerful medicine type person not exactly he wouldn't like ATT but he was a very strong medicine type of person so and his name was yell yellow that's got name was given his brother I went off to a school about a junior in high school I discovered girls and kind of ended my and I went on to to school re me background give some idea know what like my father was a uh one these guys that know he told you something and you might argue with him under your breath but you made sure that he didn't hear you and so I I decided I was going to be a pre I was really confused about what I was going to do with myself so I decided I was to go to the Air Force and kind of find out what life was about and of course he he was ad but I going to college and so one day he goes to town and on our reservation you know we have an Indian agency and Indian agency pretty much you know tells us what to do so B long story short went the agent the agent talked about this great School in called fi in Minnesota and so my dad came back I'm telling you hey we were rers I was he my dad bouncing over the hill weighs me down I think oh something terrible has happened byway he uh says I know where you're going to school and I said oh did you go to Minnesota they already you know they called me school got me Adit everything and then came back and told me where I was going so that was T today you batteries of tests and you have counselors and think well my I you're going that as I was getting on the bus to leave he grabbed me and said you know you're smart he said if you go over there and you raise hell and you don't study and you out he said don't come back here there's nothing here for you so that was my that's not how I grew up like but anyway whether has question who would be the man I told you a little bit about the you know how they they had this massive trade system the H were over in the East also we also have some questions some mythology in our or some stories in our culture that put us some somewhere at the most one time maybe at the MTH of the Mississippi River we might came up the river there some story that and so they like I mean let food but anyway uh you going talk a little bit about you know what life was like what who were we when l heart came to us besides having this massive tra I we have been contact we been we first ran into French around 1700 we were trading with them on a regular basis there were always Frenchmen that come in that came to our village and lived with us they married among our people and uh you know so we were used to to seeing white people come to our village and so when Lo in CLK came to our village we really weren't B impressed the death were to some extent because in 1781 prior to 1781 they were the rulers of the upper Missouri there were large people there were numerous people and uh and they lived in these several Villages and each of these probably 10 Villages around the area by then they were living around the heart river in North Dakota and uh they were probably each capable of raising at least Warriors which you you think about it so it's there a lot of people massive infrastructure and we developed all this all this this culture we're M legal which means that the women were govern compar to know when Lou and clar came to us you women had you know didn't even have the right to vote in most inst instances they were Step Above shadow in our culture women own everything they own classes certainly they you know with some help of us they they built their cles uh we did the huning we did the uh the garding of the village and the women you know did besides building their lodes they also you know they made clothes and they they also kept a meat PR care of the food and so for but they owned all that St so for example you know if you married a woman in our society at that time the you went into that woman's Lodge and became part of her Lodge she didn't come to your Lodge and become part of you you went to her so I suspect that if it were modern a that instead of they taking our name when we married we probably took their G When we married so and uh you know things were and also you know we had some pretty severe responsibilities responsibilities of providing food and those kind of things and if we didn't do a very good job and if for some reason or other you know their our wife decided that we really want a very good investment there was no such this worrying about child support or who's going to divide the property or that kind of thing all you did was just take your stuff and put it outside the lodge and and we were and you were hi you hope hope that you that you had a your mother still had room for you or somebody else take you in I'll give you out there homeless basically um so and then uh you know things like we had our medicines you know people always wonder you know hearing about for instance that she had a very difficult time in labor I never fot why would she be except for Charo uh and charos C bring out the me why she would actually go to the Fort to have this child but she had all kinds of of help and systems back back in the D probably made her her her labor a lot easier all those guys that little try to have a video there but so we had all these Sy in place we knew how to how to doctor things we do the plants that that we had and and how to get tea and those kind of things and some even carry over to my when I was younger one time I was playing with a knife and u i was PR for it I was throwing the knife down like that and beh hold I stuck myself in the foot and I pulled the knife out you know blood just spr over place and I out a loud yell and my dad came running and I guess he thought I was probably probably got fit by r or something but when he saw what I did he went out into the into the trees there and he brought some leaves and he chewed those leaves and he put them on that that gushing blood and he just within literally within seconds of leaving stop never did try to find out what what PL that we choose in order to do that you unfortunately that's G so so much of that so much of our our ways of medicine those kind of things are are gone because we didn't uh bother to either find out about them or try to uh r that partly because we had two major small epidemics in 187 1781 and that was probably one of the major major reasons that as result that smallet epidemic the almost wiped out some you prob me if you were in school about when I was went the history books he find out that all the uh that all the mands were were were gone there were no mands I go heing that school and U coming back home and quing my parents about why they were telling me I was about M because I wasn't there were no M left the teacher said that teacher right so uh we had this so when leis and Clark came up the river you know the mandz looked at them as a way to get some of their influence back to get some of their power back you know some new trading partners they really had no idea about you know what what they were doing they weren't used to having discovers discover for sa us to having Traders their Village that was change and when they got done you know and all this top about see some of the things that Louis and Par did because we had a very sophisticated system of saying a family you're born you're born into a family and immediately at Birth you know you're a grandfather you're a father and you're an uncle we didn't have cousins in our in our culture and each of those had had K with responsibilities the uncles for instance on my father's side my dad's Brothers their role was to help to be to have respect to understand culture and also that was the go of of our B my brothers my mother's Brothers on the other hand were the disciplinarian they're the ones that taught you how to pay attention to things how to mind that kind of thing and and they did this with you know a fair h of very good persuasion sorry I what of I uh talking we were talking about that one of one of my relatives tell me about his experience when he was a kid he said he lived in a little Community called Shel and there was a and there was a shelter which and the water ran fairly fast North Dakota in the winter time you know usually gets pretty cold and almost everything freezes over well in this instance there apparently was a little spot there where the ice didn't freeze and there were fish in that area so he used to run down there and watch play with a p and his mother was very concerned that he would fall in the water and ground and he wouldn't die he wouldn't mind keep running down there out run down there so one day her brother showed up and he told she told him that she a really concerned about La she said he's down there he always goes down there that fish I'm afraid he's going to freeze or CCH a terrible cold or whatever so he said okay so he went back outside put on his horse SC down there sure enough was La went the fish so he grabbed La by his by his heels and he put his head first into that ice pool water remember cuz what 20 below zero outside he said just about the time he thought he would grounded he pulled him out shook him good as soon as he caught his breath he stuck him back in the water again and then he put him he said he put me on the back of his horse and he G back to the house well you know that when it's that cold and wind you know everything that's wet freezes almost instantly and so by the time he got back to the house his clothes from about here on upward frozen but the effect was that he said he never went by that again I the same you my uh my Nemesis was my was my uh one of my mother older brothers his name was Thomas and U that was the role he played was that if I was looking around not doing it what my PO wanted me to do their magic word was we're going to have tell uple to and take oh no and so and he came to the house first thing he would do is asked my parents if I was behaving myself this guy behaving himself know I'm sitting here the only place I was when whatever I see him coming I would take off of the house I guess when I was younger I would scream and take off of the house try to get get so the place that I always found found any kind of a uh any kind of safety at all is my grandma's black if I got to my grandma before Tom got to be I was safe no matter what she going to but nobody else would so that was and this was an age old system though parents did not discipline the children they disciplined somebody else's children in their roles as so we had this very complicated system uh in the earth lodges in the summer in the winter time you know we built Earth lodes on top and the summer one know e to farm up there number two there was you can see distances the enemy coming number three uh comfortable bugs and stuff and wind and blow winds a lot night Bree and all these nice uh bires would be like like an air condition Sy win time we went down below and we we built we built uh new smaller lodges and then onto The Lodges was a little big kind of like an Annex almost and in that anex the uh grandfather or the older folks the grandparents and the young children would spent most their time because it was nice and warm in there just ideal place for education to go on culture so that's how we were living when those came to us we we had all these all these system we also had a system of PL now remember we when Louis and Clark came to SP time Village we we live you know just and side by side in these large villages we had no Poli system or we had no no written laws or no jails or anything anything like that we did have a place syst that but we did have we those kind of things and so we um we kept order number one we they developed a plans system and the plans were you know basically almost like an extended family they also played some of the same roles like the clent unes were people who provided certain kinds of par for instance being a Society we were born into our mother's plan and the mother's plan had certain responsibilities the father's plan on the other hand also had certain responsibilities and they would um one of the major ones was they were it was up to them when you passed away you sent your spirit to to the spirit world EV our we we still do that where we we called senior be a our language and their job was to be sure that you are sent to the right right direction and we're all with those ke that one of things we always had I think kept us through difficult times was our ability to laugh at things to laugh at ourselves to tease to tease each other even you know at very somber times I remember one time there was a story about this guy who was his job was to send the spirit off to the to the right place you stand at the foot of the the gra you know the person's head is pointed to the east they always set the spirits off we believe that they to to the East and so he's out there and usually know say you give instructions say don't come back you know don't be scaring people don't know always all these kind of things say this kind of long Sal thing and one the things he said to this to Spirit was he said you're going to a place where there's going to be good things to eat like oranges and apples guy couldn't speak get he sing this in English and one the guys P the other guy he said I think he's send him to Florida go Sav R I was going to try to stop about now I guess um and I kind want talk with you rather than at you so anybody has any questions I try to try to try to answer that right now yes how does the okay the ricas uh were always south of us they you know they came from around the area around the Arkansas River they moved up and eventually I think when Lou and Clark came they were probably somewhere around around the border of north south F South and they always were sometimes we were at war with them U you know we had kind of a difficult relationship until about the 1840s when they came to know because of the the tribes the or thetic tribes coming together they move closer towards us and we asked them to we were living at like a fishal village and at was 1845 they were across the river and we said you come and join us because in numbers we can be more effective against our enemies and the arra felt that at that point that they didn't need to do that this happened a few times and eventually they got attacked by a bunch of enemies and eventually joined us that's how they came together again I was saying that know we we teach each other all the time and so our word for the they call themselves sish and we call them which basically means you know if you were in a fight with somebody and that person was beeding you up and you came running to me for help that's what choice words for us questions yes what about the the I'm sorry I forgot to mention well about the Welsh coming up because some of your words are similar to The Welsh and you're home to come they weren't really they were more like Buffalo bus yeah that's what I mean I well I don't know I guess most of us don't think that there's anything to that you know and you know and um really there's no evidence there's there were stories about Mand dancing some some blue maybe the Vikings have gotten mixed up with somewhere along the way but in our Among Us there's really no evidence of that ever Happ so first Contact was with a friend andly the French came with us and they married with us but there was no think so yes if you were wiped out if you were wiped out by small pox I said we were almost right okay almost thank and we do have and there's very few unfortunately Amanda culture itself you is really the language is really endangered at this point there to my knowledge there are two uh real fluent Mand speakers left I I also shared the U I worked at the Museum my my career was in Healthcare Management um after I retired in 1999 and then U I got interested in history and amateur historian with emphasis on amateur that way I can say anything to you I want so but so that's kind of how I uh that's how I got you know involved and and we're trying to preserve we have a a u you know working with one of the colleges and we're we have the person the one person that we have that's a fullet speaker is being taped to telling stories in in the Mand language and will archive those and then know so we're trying to at this point to preserve the language but the other on the also on the other hand being you know somewhat pragmatic that we need to preserve so that you know we will have an archives to go to to be able to bring back and and see what we can together there is an apprentice typ person who is studying just got his Masters he's one of our trial members nephew of M uh just got his Masters in specialy in preserving uh indigenous languages and he's desperately Mand know doing almost a total abion Liv with this and language so might yes are youu yes yes yes we are it's difficult because most of you probably stud foreign language you know some type of foreign language Latin did four years of Latin in high school and took a year Spanish oh I also know how to I I used to know how to speak German primar because I used to hang out with the grade school I went to high school I was German Russian community in North Dakota lot of the so I learn how to speak anyway uh so it's very difficult to teach it in school because with two things one is that know we need to preserve the language and the culture at the other hand we also need to have our kids learn the skills they need in order to become you know successful World they need to learn math they need learn English um you know they need to learn sciences and that kind of thing so it's kind of kind to put those two together we have the double responsibility learning the skills that will allow us to be to be successful in the world and also Hader I was up in North Dakota last year we went over into Mont there was an Indi University that we went to okay we also have AOL okay and they were saying that there were mostly young women with children who were attended and that there was a day care for the children wouldn't that be an ideal place to start do that we're try to do that reason that there you just mentioned that there are most of our reservations don't have community because we tried sending students out when I went to school there were I think out of out of our tribe there were probably what six of us that went off to colleges I went to a school at B there were four big reservations right around B and there were six Indian people in in at the state and all six of us were Jacks so but now you know they have an IND studies program you know we have this year we graduated a lot of students we know our TR this doation for being pretty well educated we have we have doctors U Physicians we have doctors philosophy we have several M I guess we say that almost any field you mention a field we probably have one of our C members that's successful at practicing that field doesn't mean that we're without problems you know the the system of destroying the male especially when you know when transition happened we put on reservations uh and then we had a thing called Garrison Dam which completely destroyed our culture and we're trying to recover from that uh you know lot of the destruction was aimed at the veils and our system our way of life and and quite successful yeah so we're trying to recover from that we're trying to Define who we are as and and and what our life will be in the future because we feel that's our responsibility to that take care of ourselves feed ourselves and set up but also to preserve who we are and and communicate that to the Next Generation yes how did the M get along with the suit not well not well we were their name for us the s word the makot word I say there three different dialects of word for for the h man dance is uh to and to means enemy but I I used to work uh at 48 s Ro which is reservation down where city was from and so forth I first win you know and people were strong I oh you're a to so I got the right idea okay that must be what we are so asked me where you from I said I'm a to some me you know what means I said oh me enemy but we not we get along really well in fact my uh see my niece back there and you know she's a m and some German and my my son-in-law is a is a now we're friends but we no we didn't get however we did we we had this massive trade system they used to not trade with us and so when they came to trade with us we we had a u i like a truce not only a truce but when they came our village to trade they became part of us so if we got attacked by a sue band while they were there they were obligated to Def to help us defend ourselves working the world today I don't know question about your Earth lodges a question about your Earth lodges you said the um the summer ones were up on the top of the hills and the winter ones down in The Valleys uh did you rebuild the year or were they had to re well the summer lodes worked those were permanent but us the river ones were I mean the B ones were usually because what you know during the winter you have a massive drain on the the resources especially especially wood because we wood and so we probably Prett well completed the resources we also had we elected chief that came to our Villages a couple guys happen to be was happen to be their particular time to be and so they were immediately chosen as the as as the Chiefs we had temporary kinds of chiefs so we our people our leaders we had this elaborate Society system where you started out as a youngster and if you proved yourself then you ended up being you know a black mouth which was the top Society he became to old to be a black go and he became a a member of the the old go dog Society the old W societies those two societies were the ones that made policies and for black car them out and there were like there was a group called The Fox kit and their job if the village was under attack and we needed to escape there were like the kamakazi on that would sacrifice their life for the uh you know for the good ability of all their songs and centered around the philosophy of death you know good to die for the cause kind of thing we're kind of one more question yeah I play I this week 6:30 uh earlier did you describe kind of in depth your spiritual belief so when was Catholicism introduced to your tribe and were there any attempts to suppress your your spirit oh absolutely absolutely I probably around 18 1860s '70s know we had a reservation which divide the fa into two two parts and and the the uh Congregational Church was given the responsibility to christianize the Savages of one side and the Catholics were given the responsibility to christianize these saes you know on the other side unfortunately you know again it was kind of like those in park when they came to our F they recognized nothing positive about what we were doing we had this elaborate system we survived for for centuries develop the spiritual people gave there to us but then we were desolated by Smalls we were starving to death and I think it was more of just a Breaking of our will we didn't have much that and so we we became we became Catholics who became congregational now there's all kinds of other churches there too but the you know our Traditions are are coming back and we're trying to find you know redefine I think anyway I think my time is it's been a pleasure and we make a commercial announcement in the uh fall August of 2006 there will be a signatur at Fort birle you know we're kind of as I was saying L and Clark were really no big deal I'm doing an oral history project right now and I'm interviewing several of my contemporaries and direct I reservation believe it or not um and one of the questions I asked them you know so what do you recall your anybody in your house your an your your grandparents anybody talking about leis and Clark and there's virtually nothing about L and Clark say what about she whatever you know where she married Etc ET there's very little to do about about s the only thing that you know we take pride in is that I mean we're not was a fine win uh and but the thing that we that we we can say with with confidence is that there were any number of our women that would have had the stamina and so forth you to be able to walk out to the pafic carrying a child and come back but anyway August of 2006 we'll have our s event hope that a lot of you will come and visit us we the home of or we're the place where ghost and Par spent their winter we'll try to make you as comfortable as we may l in par when we came there hopefully hopefully you won't be as much trouble because us the little the little I been able to gather about you know one I know one of our our Chiefs was saying you know that they came to us having no skills I they never lived in the in in the cold North Dakota winter before 42 was toally totally unheard of I was in at the monello opening up the park I think one day it was there like seven above and everybody was freeing for that I mean that's you know that's where they came from and so they had no skills and we had you know they were one of the old Chiefs old was saying we had to watch them like a HW so we wouldn't do anything stupid with that think for coming in and sharing that with us we always like to having it here on our stage I'll tell you a little bit about the